268: Setting Boundaries (with Terri Cole)

You’re listening to the Vibrant Happy Women podcast, episode number 268. I’m talking with the amazing Terri Cole all about boundaries. You’re going to love this one. Stay tuned.

Hi, I'm Jen Riday. This podcast is for women who want to feel more vibrant, happy, aligned, and alive. You'll gain the emotional, physical, and spiritual tools you need to get your sparkle back and ensure that depression, anxiety, and struggle don't rule your life. Welcome to the Vibrant Happy Women Podcast.

Hey there my friends. Welcome back to Vibrant Happy Women. I am super excited about our guest and show today. I’ll be talking with the fantastic Terri Cole, author of new book Boundary Boss which was out on April 20^th. Many of you have written to me over the years asking, “Jen, what’s your favorite self-help book?” Well, I can confidently say now that my favorite self-help book is Boundary Boss.

I love the topic of boundaries because it is essential for our happiness, our energy, maintaining our precious time doing the things we love, styling and crafting a life and the relationships that we want. And when we don’t know how to set up boundaries, we struggle in all those areas of our lives. Well, Boundary Boss is a fantastic book that guides you through several steps, kind of like a workshop of number one, identifying or inventorying your life so you know exactly where you need boundaries. Number two, setting up your boundary blueprint and much more.

Terri and I are going to be talking about all these steps on this episode today. Now, I’ve followed Terri for years. I’ve followed her on social media. I’ve seen her do a number of interviews. I was so excited when I heard she had a book. And I messaged my teammate Tara and I said, “Please do anything you can to get Terri to come on the show because I want to talk about boundaries with her!”

So if you would like to be a boundary boss, which you’ll hear in this interview, Terri describes as a language we learn, much like you might go learn German or Russian, then this episode is for you. Let me tell you a little bit more about Terri. Terri is a licensed psychotherapist and global relationship and empowerment expert. For over two decades Terri has worked with a diverse group of clients that include everyone from stay at home moms, to celebrities and Fortune 500 CEOs.

Terri has a real gift for making complex psychological topics feel doable and accessible so that we can achieve lasting change. Terri is amazing. I feel so honored that she would be on the show. I know you’re going to love everything she had to share. Let’s go ahead and dive in.

Jen: Hey everyone. I’m talking with Terri Cole today who has created something that has been needed for a really long time, a new book about boundaries. Terri, I want to go ahead and let you introduce how you became involved so far that you wanted to write a book about boundaries which we need and are so grateful you’ve done. Welcome to the show by the way.

Terri: Thanks Jen, I’m happy to be here. They say you most teach what you most need to learn and so personally I had a whole entire journey sort of from boundary disaster to boundary master over a couple of decades of my life. And when I became a psychotherapist I just saw this massive need. So I had been a talent agent for a number of years, was not happy in that business, switched careers, became a psychotherapist in my early 30s.

And I just saw all of these people coming in with different presenting problems. Maybe it was not being paid what you’re worth or maybe it was difficulties in relationships. But when I followed the dots backwards all of those presenting problems led to the same place which was this lack of understanding how to establish, enforce, articulate, to even know personal and professional boundaries.

Jen: Wow, that’s amazing. So what’s your definition of a boundary?

Terri: It’s basically knowing, I mean the way that I talk about having healthy boundaries it’s knowing your preferences, your desires, your limits, your deal breakers and being able to clearly articulate those things in your relationships.

Jen: What you want essentially.

Terri: And what you don’t want and what you will not tolerate. So we have deal breakers which is basically the stuff where you go, “Just not for me, that’s not for me.” All of these things are so personal and yes there is a mental health aspect of we have a right to make a boundary request or prioritize our own preference around something when it has to do with us.

And I think that there’s a lot of confusion about what boundaries or what does it mean if you have good boundaries? Because honestly I think healthy boundaries have gotten a really bad rap in the last two decades or more. I mean what do you think people think about when you say, “I can’t wait to be a boundary boss?”

Jen: Yeah. Well, so, on my show I’ve shared a definition of boundaries. I wonder what you think. My definition of boundary is being 100% responsible for your thoughts, feelings, and actions, and what you have and want, and not responsible for the thoughts, feelings and actions of other people. Well, I heard you giving an interview a couple of weeks ago with the idea in mind that in a relationship there is a place where it is okay to expect some types of behavior. So you have that term ‘deal breaker’ and I’ve been thinking about that ever since.

So my definition is very sterile, it’s good for narcissistic relationships or pushy teens. But in the end how do you use a definition like mine that’s cut and dry? And the reality of we have to have some overlap if we’re in relationships.

Terri: Right. Well, your definition, which I like, there is an accuracy to it because we all have our own unique frame as to how we see things. But there is a codependency feel to yours, meaning you got specific about not engaging in codependent behaviors. When you look at what is codependency, it’s being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the decisions of the people we love to the point where it’s detrimental to our own internal peace.

That’s my definition of codependency because we’re all invested in those things to some degree, which is your point of how do we handle the overlap? So I give this example, my husband is an artist and he goes on locations when people can go places again to war zones and stuff like that. So he’s a visual journalist it’s called where you draw what you’re seeing and that’s how you report things.

So, when he first was going to do this and we were already married for a long time when he first went on that type of assignment. I was like, “Well, of course, go.” And he was like, “Wait, I can go?” I’m like, “Well, yeah. I mean do you want to go?” And he’s like, “Yeah, it’s like a dream come true.” Then I’m like, “Well, I’m not going to tell you not to go even if it’s dangerous.”

But would that have been my boundary if I had a 10 week old baby with my husband at home? And the answer to that is no. I don’t think I would have been so willingly being like, “I don’t own you.” You know what I mean? I’d be like, “If something happens to you I’m alone with this person, no, later in your life.” So I do think that our boundaries change depending on the life cycle that we’re in because what’s appropriate when we’re raising minor children between couples is different when we are done raising minor children.

So boundaries have to be somewhat flexible. Now, not overly malleable because that’s having porous boundaries, just meaning sometimes we have to pivot, sometimes life changes. So I think that it is unrealistic to think that in a, especially a long term relationship or a family relationship. Yes, we want to take a 100% responsibility for our happiness, for our thoughts, for what we want, for speaking up, all of those things. But there’s also the overlap.

So let’s look at if you’re in a marriage and I had an agreement with my husband before we got married that we would both stay as physically well as we were able, that we would do what we could. That’s not to say no one will end up with cancer or something else. It means the things that are within our control we will work at staying healthy simply because having a lack of that impacts the other person.

And I think that those are the types of things where women in my therapy practice would always say, “Well, my partner is very unhealthy, he has gotten out of shape, is not very well, doesn’t have a lot of energy. And do I have a right to want them to be healthy?” And you would get a different answer from any therapist you ask probably.

Jen: Yeah, right.

Terri: But my own deal breaker personally in my life, I mean I ended a relationship because the person was too sedentary. And not that I was judging them, it’s so funny, after I did an interview talking about this situation someone’s like, “Wait, I don’t get it. You broke up with someone because their body wasn’t good enough?” I was like, “No, that’s not at all.” “Yeah, that’s what happened lady.” Okay, anyway, you’re just like, “Hi. Did you listen to the interview?”

What I said was I really wanted someone in my life for the long run, that we were going to have these things in common, want to take a similar vacation, like to go hiking, want to go biking, want to do these things. That is actually a lifestyle choice. So I think that every person has to see what is their deal breaker. For me in that former relationship, that was a deal breaker because you do spend a lot of your time doing activities together hopefully. And if not I’m like well, I will not grow with this person because I’ll just be doing my own thing.

So anyway a lot of those things are personal but when it comes to families and raising children this is where boundaries with kids, with teens, even with adult kids there has to be some kind of communication if you are doing this with another person. If you are a unit and you have done this together so that there’s not the dividing conquer type of thing that happens with kids, even grown kids. Do you know what I mean? Where they’ll ask you and then if you say no then they go to the other person. So I think that there’s nuances to having healthy boundaries.

But if we were going to say the base, in order to even assert any kind of healthy boundary you really need to know yourself. You need to know what is working for you, what is not working for you, what is bothering you, what is annoying you, what need is not getting met if that’s happening. And then learn how to speak this language because what I really found in my therapy practice and teaching this for a bunch of years even before writing the book. I guess there are tips and strategies that I’d worked with my clients for almost two and a half decades in the trenches.

But then I wanted to see would it translate to a big group? Would it translate if I wrote it in this very concise way? You can use this tool for this. And after about five years of doing a course and then modifying the course, that’s when I decided to write the book.

Jen: So with the example of your previous partner or a person in your life where they were too sedentary, what do you do when you decide it is a deal breaker? With that codependence piece with my definition of boundaries, a lot of women and moms will nag, and complain, and threaten, and try to get people to change that behavior. So what does that look like when they’ve kind of broken the agreement, the person was sedentary for example?

Terri: Well, here’s the thing. In my situation I didn’t have an agreement. So that was a realization I had once I was in the relationship. So in a way that was kind of about me, he didn’t change, I changed. But let’s say you have an agreement, they’re all different scenarios. If I were more mature at that point in my life, because I was in my 20s, I mean I had to end the relationship. I was living with him, I had to move out. I had to do it.

But I would have said, “Hey, our difference in lifestyle is really negatively impacting how I feel in this relationship, and about us, and about our potential. So are you willing to have a conversation about maybe being less sedentary and taking up some things with me even if it’s just walking or hiking, would you be open to that?” Or something like that.

If you’re committed in a relationship and you’ve realized there is a problem most of the times my clients would wait until – which is what I did in this relationship, wait until it’s too late. Wait until you are so done emotionally or like you said on the flipside, nag, harangue, whatever. That was never my style. It was more just being silent until I was literally packing my bag. So neither one is optimal obviously, so I think talking is one thing.

But before you can talk you have to learn the language of healthy communication and boundaries have their own specific language. It’s like becoming fluent in any other foreign language, you wouldn’t expect to simply be fluent because you wanted to be in Russian, or Mandarin, or anything else. You would know there’s a way I can learn this, what are the first steps? How do I do it? What are the baby steps that I can take to make these shifts?

So the way that the book is laid out, it really is a book and a workbook within a book because I didn’t want to make five things that people had, I was like I want it to be one-stop-shop and if somebody picks up this book and they can read they can actually master this by doing the exercises that I included in this book. And so we just start from the beginning and just literally walk through.

The first thing is taking a massive inventory of what is okay and what is not okay for you in all areas of your life from the way – how much you’re getting paid at work if you work, to the way your lighting is in your office or your bedroom, everything. Because what I’ve found being a therapist for so many years is that women in particular have a tendency to not prioritize their own preferences. We’ve been very trained to be like I’m easy, no problem, it’s fine, I’ll eat the leftover, whatever. I mean do you find that to be true?

Jen: For sure, yes. And that’s why so many women listen to this podcast, they’ve given up everything. They don’t even know what they like anymore.

Terri: But trust me, mamas who are listening, this is still within you. You are literally still somewhere, there is a spark of who you were because you’re still that young girl, that teenager, that woman in her 20s you are. And so part of this process is slowing down enough and just having faith, allowing me to lead you through this process of self-discovery. And really falling madly and deeply in love with yourself because this is the thing that’s missing.

We want others to validate us. We want others to value us, appreciate us. But what the problem is, is that when they look at the way we value or appreciate ourselves, most of the time the bar is pretty low. And so originally, years ago when I would start talking about self-love I never wanted to say it like the language that was out there because I always felt like it was so airy fairy and didn’t even make any sense. People would be like, “Well, just love yourself more.” I’m like, “No one even frigging knows what that means.”

But let’s talk about what that means. Do you rest when you’re tired? Do you take care of yourself physically if you’re able, to the best of your ability, I’ll say? Because not everyone is physically able but if you are, do you care about how much water you drink? Do you eat nutritious foods, if you’re able? These are things that you may think are like, whatever, those are not important. Reality is they are important.

And we have it backwards because we were taught that if we were self-abandoning enough, if we were nice enough, if we were ‘good enough’ that everything would fall into place. That our dreams would come true and we would find the right person and we would end up with a happy healthy family. But what I find is that a happy healthy family actually can only come from you being happy and healthy.

Jen: Exactly.

Terri: So we can’t wish it on or teach them because they’re learning by watching us.

Jen: For sure. Yeah, I love that. It’s so true. So in your book you share, you know, you talked earlier about deal breakers. What are the other types of boundaries?

Terri: Well, we have preferences because we may make a boundary ask about a preference. So let’s say you feel, you know, you go to bed late and your partner likes to go to bed early. You might say, “Hey, I would love it if twice a week we can meet in the middle so we can go to bed at the same time.” And maybe fool around or whatever it is you would do if you went to bed at the same time.

So that’s a preference which means that if your partner says, “You know what, I really can’t”, or whatever. That’s not necessarily a deal breaker, you can still have a happy relationship if they go to bed at nine and you go to bed at eleven, that doesn’t have to be a deal breaker unless it is for you. So we have preferences. We have desires which are a little bit stronger than preferences, you really want something. We have limits where we’re saying no to things. And then we have deal breakers that are an absolute non-negotiable.

Jen: And how do these boundaries work with teens in particular, the ones that are pushed on them the most?

Terri: Well, here’s my thought about raising teens because I raised three teenage sons, I mean with my husband. And I married my husband, he was a widower. So I married my whole family literally. He was alone and then suddenly it was like a family of five. So maybe the hardest part of parenting teens who are going to push back is remembering that you are always the adult, that you must always be the adult. It doesn’t mean you can’t get mad. It doesn’t mean you can’t draw a boundary. It doesn’t mean there can’t be consequences for bad behavior.

But I found that a lot of my clients would personalize it and be like, “I can’t believe what an ungrateful jerk this kid turned into”, or whatever. And understand that this is a rite of passage, that this is a developmental phase. This is the way that a teenager is separating and individuating from the parent. And it is so scary and so painful that they do it with anger because if they didn’t they wouldn’t do it. So your job, it’s like they’re mandated to do it and your job is to lead them and allow them, and not get butt hurt about everything and not be super thin skinned because you’re the adult.

You already went through this maybe. Maybe you didn’t. I don’t know. But lots of kids will go through this. There is a ton of information out there if you want to go, “What’s the deal with teens? Why do they go from being the nicest things to being total aggressive jerks? What happened?” And for me the way that I handled it and it was different because I married my kids. So I do think that there’s a different emotional state, as much as to me they’re my kids. But I didn’t raise them from birth so it may be easier, harder, I’m not sure.

But I always made sure that they were respectful to me. And they pretty much were. But if there was anything that felt disrespectful, keeping in mind though, I treated them with respect even when I was enraged, even when I was pissed. So you can’t be the parent who’s cursing at the kid. And then being wondering why four months later they’re telling you to eff off. It doesn’t work to be like, “Do what I say but not what I do”, because what you do is the modeled behavior for how they’re going to unconsciously manage anger, whatever the thing is.

So if there was a tone, I remember one of my kids being like, you know, wanted me to drive him to Billy’s house. This is before they even have licenses. But asking in such like a crappy way and I was like, “Dude, you realize this is voluntary, you get it? This is a favor so I’m going to ask you to back it up, restate that favor maybe with the appropriate tone of voice.” “What? What’s the problem?”

I was like, “Listen, do you want a ride to Billy’s or no?” “So right, I just want to know if you can take me to Billy’s?” I’m like, “Okay. But you do not need to come at me with that aggressive tone. I don’t like it. I don’t deserve it and I don’t do it to you, so please don’t do it.” He’s like, “Oh, right.” Now, did that mean he never did it again? Of course he did it again. But it was not letting it go because for me that was a boundary. I was very devoted. I am happy to do everything and anything I could to help right that ship that I came into that was a little bit not right.

But I also had my own boundaries where you can be that way with this person or that person. But that shit will never work with me. And I don’t feel like it was my job to put up with it. And they were mostly, do not get me wrong, they were mostly fine even though they were still acting in other ways of course, drinking and smoking weed and doing whatever else kids do. All of them are upstanding adults with their own children now, happily married. They’re fine. But at the time I was like well, they’re all going to be criminals. Amazing.

Jen: Yeah. So instead of yelling or being disrespectful to them, you maintained the respect but there was that consequence in place like I won’t be driving you, for example?

Terri: Yeah, exactly. The thing with teens is the hardest part I found is that you cannot make empty threats. By the time they’re teens you’re tired, you just feel like, God, if I ground this kid then I can’t frigging leave this house for three months. What a joke. Who even knew how long we’d be in with Covid but anyway. You’re like we’re grounded, too, and yet that is your job as a parent. You can’t get fatigued forever. You can get fatigued for a night, for a weekend. But here’s the deal, the job isn’t done yet.

So if there is something that is a major problem, if you are handing down an appropriate consequence for a scary or a dangerous action, you have got to enforce that. And it is a frigging job and it does take time. And it was a pain in my butt. My husband and I both were like, “Oh God, now we’re grounded for three months because Ben’s grounded. Great.” But we were. We didn’t go on a vacation because of something. We literally let the other kids go with the other family and we kept this one.

Because we only have so much time to impact these humans that you have had the honor of having from birth until, we are the bows and they are the arrows where you want to give them what they need to fly. And I think that, you know, and listen, maybe my thoughts on it are not that popular. But I really think that you can stay lovingly connected to your children as they become young adults without demanding that you be the center of their lives because you should hope that they’re going to meet their partner, whoever that may be. And that they create their own first family, as I call it.

And then we become the family of origin, what an honor, amazing. But I see a lot of dysfunction in this area in my therapy practice.

Jen: Well, everything on TV, I wish – you need a sitcom, Terri. I love this. So you talk about high functioning codependency. We talked about codependency a little before. You talked about that in the book. Tell us more about this and why it’s more challenging.

Terri: Well, I actually came up with this new term, high functioning codependency because my clients who were very much the way that I was, super high functioning, successful, basically women who are running the world and doing it at the expense of themselves but not seeing that.

They had no identification with the old school definition of codependency, so, if I would say, “Hey, what you’re talking about is codependency.” They’d be like, “No, no, you don’t understand.” “Hello, everyone is depending on me. I’m the one that does everything. I’m the one that everyone comes to for the answers.” “Terri, you don’t get it, you’re confused.” I’m like, “No, trust me, I’m not confused.”

And so it’s like as soon as I told them what high functioning codependency is, it’s a little bit like they talk about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, where Ginger Rogers did everything he did but backwards and in heels. It’s a little bit like this, where you’re so high functioning and capable that you can do it all but there is a cost. So you are doing it all, whether you are raising a bunch of kids, whether you have a big career, but you are overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the decisions of the people that you love.

You are still covertly and overtly trying to control what other people do. You don’t want them to make that mistake. You want to help them. You’re sending them stuff that you’re finding on Google. You know what I mean? You’re running your whole life and you’re still thinking about helping your friend get the job. “I know someone. I’ll make the connection for you.” So as soon as I was like, “That’s high functioning codependency.” All my clients were like, “Yeah, totally that’s me, yeah. That is definitely me.”

Jen: Wow. So what’s the intention of living that way, to prove how amazing they are? [crosstalk]

Terri: It’s so unconscious though, Jen. It’s really nobody’s – what drives any kind of codependency, which is fear. So it’s fear of being left, fear of being rejected, fear of abandonment, fear of failure, fear. So in a way when you think about codependency, when we make ourselves irreplaceable in the lives of others, because we do so much because we’re so reliable, all those things, that’s what we’re doing. We’re making sure, if I’m indispensable then this person won’t leave me. Does that make sense?

Jen: That’s huge. And when you bring that back to the lens of being a parent of teens, yeah, you were not afraid to let them become their own selves, you had to let that go to no longer be codependent with them, yeah.

Terri: Right. And to not – here’s the thing, if your teen thinks you’re un-cool, that’s cool because that’s what they’re supposed to think to a degree where they’re like – our kids used to be like, “You guys are so boujee.” I didn’t even know what that meant at the time. I still don’t even know what it means actually. “You’re always calling each other babe. You’re so corny.”

And I loved it because I knew from my own mother that that’s good. You don’t want to be the same as your kids. You don’t want to be friends with their friends. You’re not friends with them because that isn’t your job and maybe one day you’ll have an adult fond and friendly relationship. But yes, you’re never going to be friends with your kids. And you’re never literally, if you’re a mother and you have grown children are you ever going to be – can’t wait to talk about how sex was with dad? I hope not because that’s weird as hell, right?

Jen: Yes, for sure.

Terri: And I promise you, for every mother who’s like, “My daughter is my best friend.” That your daughter feels burdened by that, I promise you, trust me because she would like you to have your own friends. And she would like you to allow her to be the center of her own life.

Jen: That’s huge.

Terri: I know it’s hard, it is. But it’s okay to be un-cool, we just want kids to do their thing, start to make decisions and you can be there for them of course. And of course if kids are going to do something terribly dangerous you can try to intervene and stop them but how will they learn if there isn’t consequences for the mistakes or for the wrong things that they do? This whole thing with the college things where the parents are paying to get, it’s just such a disservice to the kid.

Jen: Yeah, for sure, yeah.

Terri: Wow. You know what I mean? The mother is so insecure that – oh my God, I would cry. If I thought my parents didn’t think that I could do it on my own, that’s just so terrible. And it’s really about the parent, not about the kid. But anyway, sorry, I digress.

Jen: Yeah. Well, along with that my definition I guess I’m maybe a codependent person, might be true based on how I was raised. But what helps me to…

Terri: Me too, listen, who's not, Jen, prepared to stop?

Jen: Well, what helps me though; I have a couple of unruly teens right now. And I just have to repeat that mantra, “They’re responsible for their thoughts, feelings and actions. I’m not. I’m not.” It just helps me to cut and separate. But in your book you said the first step was to take that inventory. Give us a hint about the second step and then of course, everyone you have to get this book, it is amazing, Boundary Boss, it’s so good.

Terri: I love it, thank you. Well, we do the inventory about how you feel about everything and then we end up doing your boundary blueprint which is your downloaded boundary blueprint. So we do a deep dive into you getting clarity about why is it hard for you to let’s say have a confrontation with someone? Or why don’t you know what healthy boundaries are?

This goes back to our families of origin, our parental impacters, whoever they may have been. And what we learned, the country we live in, the culture, the social group, all of those things impact the way that you are relating to personal and professional boundaries right now in your life. So you get clarity. And most of the time nobody shows you how to figure out what’s in your downloaded boundary blueprint.

I’m basically walking you down the basement steps into your unconscious mind and asking you the questions, asking you to answer the questions that will illuminate the way that you are relating right now. Then you can go, “Well, I don’t want to relate this way.” Or, “I don’t like the fact that I avoid confrontation at all costs because that doesn’t seem healthy or I don’t like that. I see why now I do that. These are the things I want to focus on. I want to learn this language, I want to change this. I want to change that. I want to change this relationship.”

But everything is very small, it is incremental steps throughout the entire book because changing takes time, and courage, and strength. So we do it one sort of baby step at a time. But I think that when you reveal your downloaded boundary blueprint, even just right now whoever’s listening thinking, how did my parental impacters, my mother, my father, whoever raised you, how did they relate to boundaries? Did they communicate effectively when there was a problem? Did they draw appropriate limits for you while you were growing up?

Were you burdened as a child? Were you parentified so that you had too much power in your family or you were expected to raise younger siblings or cook dinner for people when you were in fifth grade, like that? All of those things impact the way that we relate to boundaries in our relationships.

Jen: Wow. Amazing. Well, you have a little guide for us, right?

Terri: I do. So I figured, I know your crew because they’re a lot like you, they’re a lot like me. And so I created something, it’s about simplifying and doing less with boundaries. And so it’s basically a lesson, it’s a video. And a beautiful downloadable guide that you can actually do and this will help you keep these things at the top of your mind of where are you over-functioning, over-giving, even over-feeling?

Because a lot of what ends up happening, especially when you’re a high functioning codependent or just a codependent is that there’s a lot of emotional labor that we’re doing that is negatively impacting us. So this lesson and this guide will help you identify that and not do it if you would like to stop doing it.

Jen: Nice. And where can we get that?

Terri: boundaryboss.me/happy.

Jen: Awesome. And we will put that in the show notes everyone. Where can people learn more about you, get their hands on your book and all the good things?

Terri: You can find me at terricole.com which is t.e.r.r.i.c.o.l.e.com. You can go to boundarybossbook.com. And that will also, even though the book is out for a couple of days, it’ll still give you a ton of really beautiful bonuses and a lot of really valuable teaching things that come along with just purchasing the book. And you can also go take the boundary quiz if you want to. I created a quiz, it’s only 13 questions long and it’s just called boundaryquiz.com. That’s where you have to go.

Jen: Nice. That’s great.

Terri: Yeah, it’ll tell you your primary boundary style which really is helpful because then it shows you your boundary baseline of where are you right now?

Jen: Yeah. And a final takeaway for our listeners.

Terri: There’s nothing wrong with you. You can learn this, nobody taught you. How the heck could you know it? But I want to teach you right now. I am committed. I am devoted. So if you want to learn, I want to teach you.

Jen: Everyone definitely get Boundary Boss, it is fantastic, so needed. And kind of like you said at the beginning, Terri, boundaries are the foundation of everything we want in our lives.

Terri: Fact.

Jen: Thank you so much Terri, I appreciate it.

Terri: Thanks, Jen.

What did you think? How are your boundaries and what do you need to do going forward to strengthen your boundaries? I loved this conversation. I love so many elements of Terri’s book, Boundary Boss, for figuring out, for inventorying what is even happening in your life in terms of boundaries. And to figure out what are your boundary blueprints. Well, throughout the month of May we’re going to be talking a little bit more about boundaries and having an unofficial book club talking about Terri’s book, helping each other develop this ability to speak the language of boundaries.

I would love to have you join us. You can learn more and sign up to be with us at jenriday.com/club. Having these spaces of community, of women who are on the same journey of learning to love ourselves, to prioritize ourselves, to understand what we want and need, to get off that hamster wheel of constantly running, running, running and trying to please everyone else. This is the most important work you could ever do because your kids are watching.

Our society will only heal and become better as we all learn the art of healthy boundaries. I truly believe this. It starts at the individual level. And as we understand and live those healthy boundaries we become happier, we have more energy, better health, better relationships and we pass on that boundary legacy to our next generation.

Again, I want to invite you to join us in the club where we will be talking about Terri’s book, Boundary Boss, you can do so at jenriday.com/club. I want to thank you for listening. I’ll be back again next week, until then make it a vibrant and happy week. Take care.

If you enjoy this podcast, you have to check out the Vibrant Happy Women Club. It’s my monthly group coaching program where we take all this material to the next level and to get you the results that will blow your mind. Join me in the Vibrant Happy Women Club at jenriday.com/join.